Riffault Saxophone Mouthpieces - Part 2

Some, but not all, Riffault mouthpieces are stamped "France," generally to the left side of the table when the table is facing you.  Because not all are stamped, I'm going to start with a little about Country Of Origin Labels, or COOL.  COOL has been part of U.S. trade policy for a hundred years, but there are different facets of it that make it a little complex.  I'll  go over it a bit, mainly about the conditions that might not require COOL on a mouthpiece.

The first situation is where the piece was made for the French market and not intended for export.  Most businesses involved in an international market would simply stamp the COOL as a matter of course, but it wouldn't technically be required in a non-export situation.  As we have seen, in matters of woodwinds, stamping something "French sounding" is good business, so a consumer would generally not object to a clarinet or saxophone mouthpiece being stamped "France" or "Paris".  Stamping a mouthpiece "Paris" was a common ploy of U.S. wholesalers when marketing U.S. made items and that does not run afoul of the COOL regulations, as "Paris," although misleading, is not a country of origin. 

Where the mouthpiece is intended for the international market, specifically the U.S. market, there are situations in which a U.S. business might not want "France" stamped on the side of the mouthpiece.  This would likely be the case where the purchaser is a U.S. based finishing business.  A finishing business like Woodwind Co. New York, for instance, might want purchasers to believe that they fabricate their mouthpieces in house in New York.  How can they get around importing French mouthpiece blanks that are not stamped with "France," the country of origin?

Getting around COOL is quite easy.  If the imported item is worked on in the U.S., and the value added by that work exceeds the original cost of the item, then it is basically deemed "Made in the U.S.A."  This goes on with car parts from Canada assembled in Detroit (the car would be "Made in the U.S.A.").  Saxophone parts from France and assembled in Kenosha  (the sax would be "Made in the U.S.A.").  And the same for a French saxophone mouthpiece blanks refaced, embossed, and packaged in the U.S.  If the mouthpiece blank cost $6 wholesale from France, and is faced, embossed and packaged in the U.S., and that adds another $6 in value, the item can avoid the COOL requirements.  I think most mouthpiece refacers would agree that the final finish work always adds more than 50% of the value to a blank mouthpiece.

In the case of a Riffault mouthpiece, if a bulk purchaser wanted to avoid COOL, it would only need to have sufficient purchasing power and a long enough lead time to order pieces from Riffault without the standard "France" label.  Lacking that, or simply by mistake, some supposedly U.S. made mouthpieces did end up with "France" stamped on the side.  In many cases, those pieces can be identified as being produced by Riffault. 

Here is a style of Riffault that we will meet in a minute.  It was finished and embossed by Woodwind Co. New York.  It has the WWCo. "Steel Ebonite" trademark instead of the Riffault "Steelite Ebonite" trademark.  It also does not have a Riffault tip and lay designation on the side.  Instead, it has the WWCo. "K5" lay stamped on the top of the body.  Oddly, it does have the "France" country of origin label on the side.  I guess that slipped by on this one.  Question:  Which do you think is the better hard rubber, Steel Ebonite or Steelite Ebonite?

Here is a WWCo soprano piece marked with Riffault's trademark "Steelite Ebonite" and no country of original label.

This WWCo piece has the Riffault three bands and a later style Riffault COOL stamp that we will meet in a minute.  

In some cases, the finishing business was right up front about the source of the blanks used for their pieces.  The following is from an Ebay auction for some remaining stock of Ponzel mouthpieces.

HI, This is Peter Ponzol and I want to tell you about "The Ponzol Store". I've been in the mouthpiece business since 1985, so you can imagine how many mouthpieces I have collected over that many years that are discontinued, B stock, prototypes, samples and one of a kind. Up for auction is the last of the original hard rubber alto mouthpieces from 1990 in a C* opening. This is one of the last made from the old French Riffault blank. Its probably never been played except by me for testing. I have two of these and this auction is for one of them. I'm listing this to call your attention to "The Ponzol Store", which is where I have listed the entire collection of these odds and ends. Please note that I am no longer selling my products to Musicians Friend and their affiliate companies. The new Ebay and online seller of Ponzol products is Octave Music. Contact me if you have questions. Shipping to the Cont US is included. I will ship to the UK, the EU, Japan and Canada. Shipping of one mouthpiece between $26-$39 depending on country. Please do not bid unless you have positive feedback. Payment expected within 48 hours.  Thanks and many greetings. Peter

Here are the Riffault produced mouthpieces that were being sold.

These mouthpieces have a flair shank and are some of the last produced by Riffault et Fils before the sale of the company to Hérouard & Bénard in 2001.  I was told by the president of H&R that this particular model is not presently in production (although shown in their catalog).  The chambers can vary, but the model was usually issued as the Superfini, which was explained to me as having a interior polishing to remove all mold lines (probably using some of the purpose-made tools shown below at a Hérouard & Bénard mouthpiece fabrication work bench in the factory).

Click to enlarge.

Of course, Mr. Ponzel would have altered the lay and probably even the chamber in producing his own pieces.  But using Riffault's French blanks (or JJ Babbitt's U.S. blanks) seems to be common for a startup business and even some longtime businesses.  It eliminates the need to invest in expensive molds or, even more costly, complex vulcanization equipment.  

Riffault blanks also show up (apparently in their original unaltered form) as "student" mouthpieces rebranded with U.S. trade names like Revelle and Harmony.  Because there would have been no further finish work done in the U.S. on those inexpensive pieces, they would need to meet the COOL requirement and therefore often also carry the Riffault trademark "Steelite Ebonite."

I have seen three different COOL France stamps used on Riffault mouthpieces over the years.  They are kind of a generic font, so it may be the consistent placement as much as the font that would help us identify a Riffault piece.  I have always seen "France" stamped to the left of the table (when facing you) as shown below with the smallest font .  And by small, I mean really small (1 mm).

Look closely, it's here on this older piece.  Sometimes the COOL is very faint.  Maybe there was an attempt to remove it from this piece, which does not have any other markings than a #3 facing.

The Riffault trademark "Steelite Ebonite" appears on many pieces in a 1.5 mm font, although this piece does not have any other Riffault identification other than an R7 facing (.080").

The facing numbers for Riffault mouthpieces are shown in this recent brochure from Hérouard & Bénard. 

Riffault also used a 2mm France stamp.  Here it is on a Vito Melodia tenor.

And here it is on a seemingly identical "no name" tenor.

I said "seemingly identical because, even though they both have #3 facings, there is a difference.

Vito 3V and a no name 3.

The no name 3.

The Vito 3.

The Vito is one of Riffault's Superfini pieces.  The mold lines have been polished out, as mentioned above.  Does it improve the piece?  I'll have to play them later and see.  

And here is my third "identical" piece, this one marked "N2."  Sometimes the number is before the letter, sometimes after.  Does that mean anything?  I don't know.

The #2 designation is supposed to be .060 inch, but this one measures .066.  

And this chamber is different in that it is smaller and doesn't blend as smoothly into the bore.

Again, since there is no Noblet brand name stamp on it, I'm not sure that it sold with a Noblet saxophone or if "N" is a chamber style or what.  It makes buying vintage Riffault mouthpieces a guessing game if the seller doesn't provide a picture of the chamber, which is generally the case.

I think that the third COOL font came last.  It is a color embossing, which means that the mouthpiece is stamped with a thin layer of colorant between the mouthpiece and the stamp.  That is what gives the white, gold, or yellow color to the etching on a mouthpiece.  Riffault's COOL stamps over the years did not have color except for this COOL France stamp with the fancy "R".  When this stamp was used, Riffault's trademark "Steel Ebonite" was usually colorized as well, even in cases where there was no brand name.

An older style "bulb shank" with a colorized swooping R.

Steelite Ebonite is now colorized as well, but there is no other name on this tenor piece.  Not even a facing designation.

Even though this is an old bulb shank style on the exterior, it has a raised baffle the length of the chamber.  And even though there is a molded drop off point where the chamber and bore meet, it has been "poli à l'intérieur" as Madame Mimault said of the Superfini models. I don't know if Riffault was following or leading the trend for brighter mouthpieces.

Some of you may recognize the above chamber as the vintage scroll shank Selmer Soloist.  Here is a side-by-side comparison of a Riffault and a Soloist.  

Choose carefully.  There is a $100 difference between the two.  Here is a sound clip comparison of the Riffault and the Selmer Soloist when both have a good facing. (Sorry, the clips have been removed and I haven't been able to find them again.  Too bad, as the Riffault sounded better).

I haven't yet figured out the exact meaning of the facing "letters."  Riffault had production contracts with various woodwind manufacturers, and it appears that some manufacturers had specific facings (or maybe specific chamber designations for their particular saxophone?).  A "V" facing often appears on Leblanc U.S. (Vito) mouthpieces.  An "N" facing on G. Leblanc (Noblet).  "C" on Buffet.  "R" on Riffault and many unbranded pieces.  But an "N" facing can show up on Vito pieces, "V" on no name pieces, etc., and occasionally no letter designation at all on some pieces that have a numeric tip opening.  And then there are the blanks finished by others who stamp their own tip and lay designation on their pieces.  It appears that I may have to spend several more months in France to figure it all out.  Darn.

Finally, the best help in identifying a Riffault mouthpiece is if it just has the Riffault logo stamped on it!  I learned that Maurice Riffault was reluctant to use the Riffault name on his own mouthpieces.  I don't know if the logo indicates a piece from the mid-70's onwards, when Jacques and Bernadette Mimault convinced him to start marketing under his own name.  Here is some advertising from 1989 that shows the Riffault logo.

Some pieces that I have seen stamped with the Riffault logo don't have the COOL stamp on the side because "France" appears in tiny print under the Riffault name.

Here is a piece with the Riffault logo on a later "bugle shank" piece like the shape of the Vito shown above.

Riffault inside the scroll work frame.  The three parallel lines used for decades on their clarinet pieces now starts to routinely appear on their saxophone mouthpieces. 

Here is a later "bugle shank" Riffault with the same Soloist style chamber.

I'm running out of mouthpieces to photograph right now and will have to go through a few drawers to locate some more Riffault saxophone mouthpieces.  So that's the end of this blog for now.  I'll show some other Riffault models in the next blog and link to it here when it's written.  

But before you go . . . .  Here is a rare one.  A Riffault metal mouthpiece.  I haven't studied metal mouthpieces very much, but it appears to be a blank also used by Lelandais and probably others.

Comments are welcome.  If you need to be contacted, you will have to leave your email in the comment and I won't publish it.